LOST, Seattle Caucuses, and Mt Si High Controversy
I was originally gonna just post about how stoked I am about this season of LOST – I think it really kicks some serious a**, but I decided it would be pretty flakey in light of some of the more important stuff going on this week. Like the caucuses coming to Seattle. Like the current news snippet I heard last night on the controversy over at Mount Si High School about pastor Ken Hutcherson’s incendiary remarks about gays on his MLK day speech at the school. If they are so upset, why did they invite him in the first place?
I certainly don’t need to repeat any of the remarks, but you get the same old drill, ultra-conservative pastor slams homosexuals(ity). Surprisingly so, it was during an MLK speech about civil rights that Hutcherson delivered his diatribe. My response? Sigh. Is there a better way? That’s just it. Is there a better way? Our (Christianity’s) position on moral issues – does this trump grace? Or does grace trump even the most controversial moral issues? To simplify what I am saying: Which is greater, grace or morals? (or if you are theologically inclined, grace or law?)
Luther trounced law with his extolling of grace. The reformers after him brought the value of the law back, saying it was the moral standard. But they still held grace in high view. In the end I feel like the current posture towards homosexuality is not grounded in a firm theology as was the case with Luther and the Reformers, but rather a cultural theo-fundamentalism that would rather be bigoted than grace-ious. Sigh. Is there a better way? I’ve read up, studied up and prayed up. And there is no (easy) reconciliation between Christians and homosexuality. Only mercy and grace remains. People of God, can’t we be more of this? Must we trounce on homosexuals in every public address?
On another note, I was floored to read that Seattle Quest is hosting a Democratic caucus. Man, talk about engaging. To be fair, apparently in the past they’ve hosted Republican caucuses as well. Eugene Cho waxes political (and in the end adds the cautionary word that politics is not THE answer) I’m both impressed and fearful but it’s ok because I know that in the end Quest is not gonna pull a Ken Hutcherson.
So what does all of this have to do with LOST? Absolutely nothing…
Weird, I live in North Bend (home of Mt. Si) but haven’t heard it yet.
Rev. Hutcherson’s views on homosexuals is very well known. He’s kind of the media go-to guy when they need a conservative evangelical Christian around here.
Hehe, Wayne, you’re going to begin to think that I only post here to disagree with you! The truth is though, I am seldom moved to post when I agree with something, but when I see something that is simply inaccurate, I feel that I *must* correct.
You mention that you don’t need to repeat any of his remarks, but you then go on to complete misrepresent Pastor Hutch, not to mention the fact that you have the story *completely* wrong.
Therefore I post.
Pastor Hutch’s views on homosexuality aside (and frankly, the Church needs to remember what’s in the Bible and stand up for it a little more often…Christ said we were to be a light on a hill, not a light inside our Church), it was not he that brought up the subject. Rather, it was one of the attending teachers that shouted out a question after his address asking him how his views on racial equality jived with his views on homosexuality. He never brought the subject up, and it was because he knew that a MLK address at a HIGH SCHOOL was not the right place for such a discussion.
Now, the question about grace vs. law is a great question, and one perfectly suited for a Christian blogosphere. =)
Hey Matt – thanx for your perspective
seems like he was set up. Maybe they knew his views already and wanted to start a controversy. Perhaps inherently his views were the tipping point to begin with?
Hi Wayne,
Yes, the advisor who tried to start a debate in front of the students knew the pastor’s viewpoint on homosexuality and she claimed she wanted the students to be aware that the pastor’s intolerance of homosexuality didn’t coincide with the MLK vision of equality. Basically she and her students in her Gay alliance club at the school were furious that the school would invite a conservative to speak at the school. The school actually issued out a formal apology to the pastor for the disruptive behavior of the few teachers involved.
His students attend that high school. He has never been shy about speaking out against homosexuality based on biblical grounds, but he has always done it in a public forum where the issue is exactly on that topic, not in a place and a time where the topic is very much not on homosexuality. It was sad to see that the initial message about MLK that Pastor was trying to relay to the students became drowned out by the controversy and the agenda of few teachers.
Antioch is not a comfortable church to attend. It’s not a church that is about making you feel oh so good because you go to church. It makes you embrace the truth and be obedient to the Word. Pastor Hutch stands firm and is not swayed easily even when it may be inconvenient for others.
I guess I get tired of seeing hypocrisy in the churches and seeing them turn a blind eye when it’s convenient in fear of offending the majority. The truth is in the Word and while love and grace are the teachings of Christ, so is obedience.
I meant, his children attend Mt. Si, …not his students
ic… that certainly sheds some light on the situation. but again… they had a beef with something – and it was his outspokenness on homosexuality (in other public venues). While no one can please everyone, (and that’s not the point) pastor Hutch would still be guilty of anti-gay rhetoric. That’s what concerns me.
Wayne,
Yes, he has outwardly said that being gay is sinful. No he does not embrace homosexuality and No he will not allow his church to quietly allow that kind of lifestyle or behavior and No he will not allow outside establishments whether it’s government or other people to force him to accept or tolerate this behavior when it’s sinful. It’s all over the bible and people debate him on his belief and he’s not afraid to stand up for them, whether people label him anti-gay. He can Love homosexuals and will welcome them to our church if they were to ask for Forgiveness from not him, but from the Lord, but he will not allow for disobedience. When the law trys to step in to say Marriage can be between a man and another man, that’s not cool, let it be a civil union…if they want the same legal rights fine, but it’s not Marriage according to the Bible.
Where do Christian leaders draw the line to holding their congregation to be obedient and Loving them? I find that many Christians are afraid of drawing that line and end up ignoring it. I’m guilty of it. I want to Love everyone and believed that if it didn’t involve me personally then all to his own, but that’s not true, especially for example when in public schools they start teaching anti-religion curiculums or cause Christian children to be embarrassed they are Christians, or when they start issuing out birth controls in middle schools. As a parent I am now involved because as much as I want to stay outside of that circle, I can’t.
Homosexuality is just one sin that has been accepted by so many Christians. If Andrew were to be gay, I’d still Love him, but i would not accept his lifestyle and I would not embrace it, but I’d still love him. Jesus loves sinners, but like I said, he calls each to be obedient.
Perhaps my hormones have shot me in the foot on this one….I think Matt’s gonna be upset with me ;P
What I question is this: which is the greater task of the Christian today? To love or to condemn? “He who is w/o sin cast the first stone”
If I as a Christian approached a gay person and said I love you but don’t “accept your lifestyle” that has effectively ended any conversation, dialogue or relationship.
My stance is this: I’m with you on this moral standard issue. But I just have a harder time condemning gays, saying contradictory things like “I love you but…” There is no but. We love people or we don’t.
I think too few Christians wrestle hard enough with this.
I can argue on the “I love you but” till the cows fly because I have had to tell someone “I love you but” because they sinned against me and continued to do so and God and until they could ask forgiveness from God and change their behavior I could still love them, but I would have had to remove myself from them. And as much you think it’s contradictory to say “i love you but”, it is very painful truth that can happen and that needs to happen and that is meant to heart and something I had to do and there was nothing contradictory about it.
I’m not a hater, I have had/have relationships with people who are gay, but they know where I stand and they don’t try to force me to change my mind. They accept that as a Christian I don’t accept their life sexuality, but as a friend I am willing to be a friend if they are willing to reach out to me and if they are in need. We have a close family relative who is lesbian and it’s been a very difficult issue in our family, but I still keep an open dialogue with her and you may be surprised that we actually share laughs and hugs and have a good ole silly time. We just don’t force each other’s opinions on other people and all I’m saying is that I see no problem when people defend their views.
Homosexuality is just another sin in my eye, just as adultery, murder, stealing, etc. Is it not? Do I hate adulterers? No, I hate the sin, but I could come to love the adulterer if he/she had reconiled with the Lord and asked for forgivenness from his partner.
So while I see your point of view because as a Christian pastor you want a welcoming church to welcome all people, but what do you do when you are faced with a sinner among your congregation? Do you keep allowing them to sin by ignoring it? Do you advise him/her on the bible’s teachings? What if then they refuse to remove themselves from the sin? Do you allow them to continue to go to your church? What do you do in your position? What should we all do in this position? Have you ever been in that position?
I guess as a growing Christian having come from a Catholic background I seek a leader who is consistent and who follows the biblical truth because anything outside of that would pretty much confuses the crap out of me becuase if i can’t see it supported in the bible, how do I know it’s the truth?
I only ask these questions because I am always seeking wanting to know how a pastor like Hutch could stand so firmly on his ground on certain issues and other pastors do not?
I promise to not write anymore
Then I’ll get the last word
The allegation that I want “a welcoming church to welcome all people” bites a little, because it suggests that I am a people pleaser and have no moral grounds. I assure you, my ethics are firm (and I can see that you’re trying to discern where I stand).
But the questions you raise are dead-on, I’ll give you that. I legitimately wrestle with those and even after much thought on the issue – there are no easy answers. Evangelicalism at large has found no easy answers.
But I still don’t think condemnation is the way. In the end I believe there’s a place for laying down the law, yes, but grace triumphs over law.
wayne: you trying to cause trouble?
Throughout my experience as a mount si high school student, I have been very comfortable within the walls of the school. Many of the events that have occured of late stand for something that I think has actually hindered my acedemic progress than made me feel more comfortable as a student. Basically I think it is a load a crap. and I as well as many other students believe that the parents of our community and even those who live across the country are trying to make a big deal out of something that could have been settled long ago by the students. Students at our school are actually the ones trying to end the controversy and get along. It seems that it is the parents who have a big problem with stickin their big noses into matters that they, quite frankly, have no business in.
Mike – I’m sorry you have been a sort of collateral for these damages. Hang in there, and this too, will pass.